DIALOGUE › 60/61

With 1369 comments on 304 notes

  1. Collaboration, anybody?

    • 22h52, 29 Sep
      2008
    • 10
    1. Stefanie Jason
      That is a cool idea! I imagine it to be quite interesting (also for the graphers to look like tourists).
      *Finally got half a camera. Apparently its nothing without the battery
    2. lebogang nkoane
      Oh, I was also thinking we don't have to do the clichés, we can also do like:

      door knobs, food, shoes/kicks, body parts, bags, cars, roads, trees, flowers, whats in your bag (i think flickr did this: http://www.flickr.com/groups/whats_in_your_bag/ and so on and so on.

      what you think?
    3. Mario
      Good idea I think there is definately merit in it.
    4. twiggle stix
      This is a great idea, im interested in no.3. when should we start?
    5. lebogang nkoane
      Can we start next week?

      So, what would be the topic/theme for next week?
    6. twiggle stix
      A Black and white week.
      Lets do it like.......
    7. lebogang nkoane
      Cool tings!
      blogsta
      i love this idea... eish i've been an observer for a while and now i feel soo left out... boo hoo :(
    9. ntsasa
      fresh ideas LN. love them.
      since my bag is so full of nonsense "baggage", i like that one a lot.
      i like all of them :-)
    10. Khumbelo
      iDigs.

  2. Ralph Goings | Four Decades Realism

    • 23h10, 29 Sep
      2008
    • 04
    1. twiggle stix
      Dope.R
    2. Khumbelo
      wat the..?

      amazing stuff.
    3. seilatsatsi
      u sure???
      damn this is dope
    4. ntsasa
      no ways.
      wow

  3. Shooting Jozi

    • 19h17, 16 Sep
      2008
    • 26
      daniel
      Very very cool concept!
    2. æ
      indeed
    3. noidSyStems
      Dope ... ! ...
    4. Khumbelo
      yeah man, love their photography.
    5. seilatsatsi
      dope concept
    6. twiggle stix
      Dope!
      daniel
      Ok I'm going to be critical here and you all might get a bit wound up.

      When 75.co.za started, I thought it would be a fantastic place for people of the world to see what life is like for average South Africans from all backgrounds.

      ShootingJozi gives this, but why don't 75'ers?

      If you had to sum up your average 75'er, it would be:

      - sunsets
      - sunrises
      - beer bottles/glasses/cigarettes
      - random snaps of people

      where is the creativity? where is showing people what _your_ life is like (and don't you dare say your life is a beer/booze and friggin' sunsets, because there is more, you know it)

      Anyway rant over..

      :p
    8. lebogang nkoane
      I hear you --- but showing 'what life is like south africa' is not something I want to do --- anybody can do it, if that is what tickles them, me, I'd pass.

      I don't like my reality being immortalised, I live in a dream world and thus, sunsets, beer, cigarettes and random people are 'what life is like (for me) in South Africa)'.

      And, I am a very private person, and thus, I do not share my life, in any public domain.

      And, what is creativity if it's dictated?
      daniel
      hang on, your past 10 images have given insight into your life, your family, your mother making you eat different food and life growing up, all posted under your name on a website that is publically available.....

      Im confused, are you not sharing your life in the public domain?
    10. lebogang nkoane
      I was/am choosing what I wanted to share, I was not dictated/told about what to 'photograph'.

      I hear what you want 75 to become, but to dictate it, is to deny of us the chance to become what ever it is that we want out of photography. You want to see something specific, that's fine, but to demand it, is not right, not just.

      ps: to focus on what I view is private or not, is to shift your argument from what you were arguing about. From my perspective you are trying to dictate what 'we' should be doing with what we perceive to be photography, and that, is dictating.

      Is it not possible that, you could have the patience that you will get a 'grapher that will capture what you enjoy?

      pps: we all see the world differently.
    11. NguJaz
      i think the problem here is "primitivism". outsiders prefer to have a very specific view of south africa and or johannesburg. something that doesn't reflect that "primitive" view seems fake. what about our view. doth it not count as reflective of south africa? of johannesburg?
      doth our existence mean nothing in the greater scheme of south africans? that colonialist mindset upsets me. that "seeing the natives in their prime" bothers me. not every child of africa is reflective of the famous Kevin Carter's image of the child with the vulture.
      The Bang Bang Club don't live here no more.
      lightstalker
      Guys, I think you are ALL being waaay too precious about what Daniel is SUGGESTING- not dictating!

      I thought the point of this whole exercise was to share ideas when it comes to photography, whether you can relate to the suggested ideal of what photography should be about or NOT, i don't think its necessary to attack each other on a personal level.

      LD- Daniel was not minimizing your world view in any way, from what I can tell he was simply suggesting a more thematic approach to the kind of images we are shooting and sharing with each other.And as the creator and administrator of this site, you really should have a more open mind, otherwise this is nothing more than a vanity project that is here to serve your own ideal. Try to look at things from a variety of angles, its far more rewarding.

      Ngujaz- ' colonialist mindset'? dude, I think you can only make that kind of judgement if you know where someone comes from and what informs their personal history. Don't be so narrow as to point that finger because there are three more pointing right back your black ass!

      Aight, you guys are just pissing me off now!
    13. lebogang nkoane
      I'd respond, if you read my comments correctly --- but in an attempt not to be vain, I shall retreat.

      *retreats, and meditates.
    14. twiggle stix
      Lightstalker I think you are the narrow minded one, What angels? All this was one persons shit view of what they think creativity is, and we all know creativity is similar to beauty its all in the eye of the beer-holder.

      So whether you think im creative or not is all up to you, I respect your view and I continue doing what I do.
    15. NguJaz
      lightstalker: my black ass does have a problem with the idea that Africans should only be viewed ala Shooting Jozi. I have issues with that.
      My black ass would like to think that we're more than mekhukhu, living in rubble, living strife you know?
      My black ass would like to believe that every African on the continent would like to see themselves beyond that.
      My black ass would like to think that the new struggle involves us reaching for a new socio-economic space.
      My black ass thinks that we don't see enough images of ourselves in a positive light. Therefore, we retain the cycle of us in these apathetic conditions.
      My black ass would like to think that artistry involves not only reflecting what a people is going through; but having the foresight to show people what they can become.
      My black ass refuses therefore to adhere to colonialist stereotypes (primitivism). My black ass would like to project new avenues for children of Africa to reach toward.
      That's what my black ass hopes for.
    16. NguJaz
      oh and. just because someone prescribes to that mindset don't have nothing to do with where they come from. I know many African colonialists; many of whom are South African (however misguided they may be).
      *sigh
    17. seilatsatsi
      mhh
    18. twiggle stix
      ViVa Jaz!
    19. Mokokoma Mokhonoana
      I had a different view on this argument but, this:

      "My black ass thinks that we don't see enough images of ourselves in a positive light."

      changed my view.

      *your Black ass rocks!
    20. sizzla_slang the kingrat
      cho! cho! chowe! guys!...I think that whether you were right or not, the way in which you spoke was reminiscent of julius malema. maybe you could like to rephrase what you were saying in a less inflammatory manner?I think that whatever Daniel was saying he was at least polite...Let us get to the point where we realise that how we say things often carries more weight than what we say.for instance. if I were to say: "You people are the dummest people with access to the internet (bar Americans) ever. You talk like you talk with your arses..." as opposed to what I've just said above, you would miss my message entirely.the short version: You have a message, great! but get clever abt how you say it. Daniel leaving 75 was probably not what you wanted to happen but...* put big sigh here* put me worrying about the fate of my brethren here
    21. NguJaz
      here's the contradiction sizzla: (and I'm taking a giant leap here), Shooting Jozi reflects the lives of "some of Johannesburg’s poorest communities".

      As far as I can see, 75ers don't seem to reside in these communities. Bra Dan keeps (he does it often, this isn't the first time) asking for the reflection of life for "average South Africans from all backgrounds". I'm not sure I believe that we're not already doing that.

      If we are to document our existence, we couldn't possibly document our "lives in the slums and shack settlements"; we cannot tell those stories, the "stories of courage and vitality in the face of day-to-day hardships and economic difficulty".

      What if our stories reflect a different kind of community, a different kind of courage and day-to-day hardship?

      How do we politely communicate that we would like to document our lives as we live them?

      How do we politely communicate that?
    22. Max Mogale
      Tell it like it is Jaz! I'm feeling you on that.
    23. sizzla_slang the kingrat
      NguJaz, things are complex nowadays.

      If you read what is written one could come to the conclusion that as a fellow artist he was saying he's tired of what he is seeing from us and would like us to all up our game. He even took a step towards defining what might be the 'next level' for us. As to how it leads to him expressing his 'colonialist mindset' i am properly stumped.

      I do not agree with Daniel's suggestion.

      I just think your emotion, NguJaz, has somewhat blinded your judgement and that of those around you who have latched on to key words such as 'colonialist' and 'native' or 'Children of Africa'. Emotive words, those are.

      But I believe them primarily to be misplaced.

      In fact, by bringing in the 'colonialist mindset' accusation you have expressed a refusal to stop using that mindset as a constant reference point yourself, and therefore are a better example of a colonialist mindset than Daniel is in this particular exchange.

      The picture chosen by LD may have led your mind in a very particular direction. Yes, I believe that is the case.

      As far as I can see you have merely been defensive and not nearly progressive.

      Progressive would have been: "Daniel, I am chronicling my microcosm in detail and this is my plan. I do not wish to chronicle other things and plan to wow you with my detailed analysis of my microcosm."

      no?
    24. NguJaz
      far be it from my colonised mindset to stop the photographing masses from "upping" their game.you're missing the point.

      my question is rather simple and perhaps the "emotional" undertones are what's clouding your interpretation.
      Question: how does the current reflection of the 'graphers not reflect "life for average South Africans from all backgrounds"?
      That is the question -- in its non-emotional, non-colonialist entirety.

      our average, ordinary, run-of-the-mill daily experience is reflected here no?
      OR// does upping our game mean that we find alternative living spaces? shall we pander to the patron?
      is that the job of the visual communicator? who's pressing the shutter here? audience or "khemera man"?

      Must said "khemera man" shoot according to the tastes of his audience?
    25. sizzla_slang the kingrat
      Artists are hunters.
      One should not hunt the village dog.
      blak unicorn
      wow, what happened here, do I feel a counter revolution, I fear that putting a political agenda on this matter has fueled it into something that its not: Sometimes getting out of your comfort zone dont hurt, it doesnt mean you arent being true, it only means lending the artistic self to a new form of inspiration!
      Looking outside yourself is a good thing every once in a while

      Whats going on ya'll

      Listening to Curtis Mayfield - Love to the people

  4. Google Chrome

    • 13h39, 04 Sep
      2008
    • 04
    1. Stefanie Jason
      thats a pity! So what do u think of the browser? its very...bare...no? (maybe in a good way, i can't call it)
    2. Mokokoma Mokhonoana
      simplicity is a very good condition, so I say bare is good...

      But as a Mac'anian - the waiting sucks!
      daniel
      Insecure, loads of vulnerabilities....

      It's not bad though, the new JS engine is quick
    4. yizzi25
      FF3 is da bomb!
      -- word!

  5. Vault49

    • 21h47, 28 Aug
      2008
    • 01
    1. tebogo motea
      dude is dope, been following him a while (groupy daaso) he kicks butt...

      imagine (--hello creatives--)

      illustration battles/championships sponsored by Adobe Illustrator CS3/4/5... aha, aha..

      Vault49 vs Hydro74

      the winner is???

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