what's "dirty jozi"?
Johannesburg Shoot - June/July.
an article.Bra Dan (of hmmm fame ;-) wants to do a (I assume fashion?) shoot in down town Jozi/J-sect/Jo'Burg (around June/July) and he needs our help, what he wants is simple:
He would like us (everybody and anybody) to suggest locations, places, buildings --- the spots you dig in dirty Jozi where he can do the shoot from.
It's that simple, I think he would also like to hop from one spot to the next during the shoot --- BUT, wait, there is more:
not only is he looking for these 'locations' he would like us to 'be partake in the shooting of the shoot', to collaborate on the shoot itself, type thing!
Well, I'm down (Model Fetish) --- I am also thinking we could then have a session/get-together after the shoot somewhere down there?
Anytakers? If you are interested let him know, even if you won't/can't make it, holla at him with your 'spot in jozi' that you like.
You can reach him here: daniel@hmmm.co.za
ps: Bra Dan, let me know if I got anything wrong or missing, ja?
Word to the gods!
- 17 Comments
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Makhaya
actually, for fear of not having internet access for a bit (and not having any more nails to bite)-ill dive right into it.
is this what is meant by "dirty jozi" : http://75.co.za/ante_elias/2008/04/09
because thats not a place for any pleasant-ness. and i cannot, for the life of me, swallow the idea of glamourising
poverty for fashion. all them spots in "dirty jozi", all the people forced to dwell in such angst, would do anything to change or leave.
you said it best lebogang:http://75.co.za/twiggle_stix/2008/04/10because last time i checked bra dan, you questioned your safety should you want to whip out a camera in another part of this "dirty jozi": http://75.co.za/makhaya/2008/05/06
im not attacking anyones form of artistic expression. but im from those "dirty jozi' streets-crazy lucky to have stepped out (for a minute)-and i must say this.
for too long poor people have been utilized as a backdrop for a fast ticket to take anyone who wants to buy the feel of danger, toughness, underground culture. this appropriation has not been beneficial to them one bit. from images of what is termed as terrorists, to guerilla fighters in south america, poor kids in harlem, the favellas in brazil, to folks in locations and townships in SA-their fashion and hard earned pride can be bought and sold whilst they STILL face the hardships and insane struggles of starvation, violence, oppression, and another day of hopeless dreams. everyday their poverty silently silences them, tells them theyre ugly and they fight hard to stand up for their souls and beauty. once they do, its gentrified and seen as "cool" and "hardcore" by visitors who will move a step forward on their economic empowerment road, and not a step back to find out why in the first place, a "dirty jozi" exists.
if its unsafe to whip out a camera in "dirty jozi" then we should consider taking those models elsewhere, where theyll be safe.
and im super sure im not the only 75er from a part of anywhere in the world where struggling is a 6th sense-some of us are still sleeping there. thats why we are constantly being commissioned to offer up these streets so it can be sold as "hardcore":
but my question is: what's hardcore? perhaps someone else can answer it for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0IuUXHBkaw
i dig you bra dan, and youre a great photographer. but i had to say this. and i know youve seen the worst parts of the world (probably more than most of us here) http://75.co.za/hmmm/2008/04/21
and understood that humiliation and strife. im not expressing this to offend you or dictate what you should shoot. this is where ive been and ive also experienced and seen pain only to later see it glossed out in a magazine, while my family can barely survive......they could be some of those in the background.
sorry.
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lebogang nkoane
Huh?
*lights a cigarette.
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lebogang nkoane
err, err, Makhaya your definition of 'Dirty Jozi' is taken out of context --- it is merely a referral to Johannesburg as literally as the word dirty, as we learnt in in sub-B (not, in the ante_alias photograph) --- I've been calling jozi, 'dirty jozi' without reference to its metaphorical meaning of the word, since day 1 (okay since 1995).
But, I hear you point --- although you took one 'phrase' out of the entire thing to make another point --- that's not a fair argument, in fact in undermines the entire project/idea and shifts the entire dialogue to a point that is contradictory to what we wanted to do with photography of 'dirty jozi' ---
You have put me on a loosing side of the argument, [that's not fair].
Although, to some degree, I suspect the problem is the choice of words I have used, which would then beg the question if I should have used different words --- but that to me is fascist, it demands that I be dictated to what words to use [which is a form of censorship innit?], whereas the problem is not the words I used, but the understanding of what I meant by those words? Which would have been answered, had you just asked.
You could have left your first comment, I would have explained it to you ---- but, alas, spilt milk, is spilt milk.
BUT, wait a minute --- I used the word 'dirty jozi' in the sentence: "the spots you dig in dirty Jozi" --- now whom of us would call a "dirty, dilapidated, foul smelling, urine (or number 2) drenched, rats, 'rouch, canine carcass ridden" building as a 'spot in jozi that I dig?"
nah, Makhaya, nah, nah --- that ain't fair, not fair at all ---
*search for mantra to recite.
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Makhaya
i hear you. hard-e. but i put together fashion-shoot and dirty jozi and i got worried. all the way i make it clear its my opinion. geographically though, downtown jozi (which you mentioned) for me is still a hectic place and thats where it was all pointed to.
alas, i dont work to put anyone on a losing side in any fascist manner. and i made it clear im not trying to undermine anyones photographing expressions (even though some other 75ers work has been criticised for its contents with no apologies-but i digress), or undermine the spirit.
downtown jozi is what it is and for me (my opinion, once again), its an intense place-and actually im one of those who knows some hectic places that i do dig.
this is not about me winning or changing what will happen. i know im going to be chewed out. i didnt spill the milk though. i poured it in a cup (how i know best and utilising what i read) and its now there for anyone to taste and like or not. there are many times on 75 when people disagree with each other's views.
im not accusing anyone here. if ive misinterpreted words or intentions, then ive done just that. i still stand by what i said though-even if it doesnt apply here. and if it doesnt, then for that ill apologise without flinching.
but when i see "fashion shoot" and "downtown" jozi in the same paragraph-i have to step back.
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daniel
daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn ok this really was taken out of context.
Makhaya, I hear you totally and that aspect of fashion photography I don't agree with and won't shoot.
What I did mean was what part of Jozi do you love? I'm sick of seeing the inner city painted as a shithole and the glamours being shot in CT. The city has a lot to offer, hence me asking you all, where do you think this would showcase that this city still has soul, life and energy.
It's not a negative shoot, but totally the opposite, i want to showcase JHB city as a place that still has it.
I'm sick of seeing nothing but fresh clean locations in Cape Town/Durban and other "safe" cities being used as the backdrop. I don't believe this crap that the inner city is unsafe, and this image is both damaging to the city but also ruining the chance of it ever being a good city to live and work in again.
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daniel
I was initially thinking of using iconic JHB landscapes as the backdrop. I don't want any other people in the shot. I don't want to show the hardship, the suffering or any of that aspect.
What I do want is the rooftops, the old hotels, places that still show her to be a kicking city,etc etc. This whole concept isn't meant to be anything but positive, so sorry if you think thats the case, my fashion stuff will never be negative, I head off to bad areas to worry about that side :p
This is all about showcasing Jozi as it was, and still damn could be, if "them in control" pulled their finger out and actually did something
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NguJaz
at first read -- I didn't think "gritty" or slumming.
there's much "urban renewal" in Jozi that I think can be used; and you'll find that the safety aspect of the fair maidens wouldn't be too greatly compromised in the "renewed" areas due to cameras, security, etc. etc.
I think what I'm trying to say is that there are many beautiful backdrops in downtown jozi that may be utilised and are not as popularised because of the stereotypes of Jozi.Having said that -- I'm not down with slumming m'kay?
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daniel
No slumming!!!
Ok here are my ideas
- Cartlton Hotel (landmark and such an important building in the city)
- Top of the Lister Medical Centre is good
(http://www.listermedicalcentre.com/)NguJaz, you have just nailed it on the head with this quote:
"I think what I'm trying to say is that there are many beautiful backdrops in downtown jozi that may be utilised and are not as popularised because of the stereotypes of Jozi."
As for slumming, I'm off to Afghanistan soon, I'm keeping the slumming till then :p
"
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blogsta
okay i like constitutional hill...when ur at the top, the view is great!!
top of any high building in Jozi (downtown)...
Marie Fitzgerald Square...
Newtown...Market Theatre, old 'Workshop' place...African Museum...
Marshall Street...Those are my suggestions...
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daniel
Now this is what i'm talking about...
High buildings, the Carlton for me is the most iconic landmark, anyone who remembers the city remembers this sexy hotel.
Newtown, yah i used to DJ there in the early 90's during the rave scene, so that would be cool.
Keep them coming!
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blogsta
yeah u can't go wrong with Carlton...
Ohh Ghandi Square as well...
i think its Top Star drive in (the one by town)...
Nelson Mandela Bridge...and the Queen Elizabeth bridge are great...
Park Station as well...
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seilatsatsi
i love the gauteng legislature building on rissik n president especially in the evening when the lights are on, too fresh. i also love the view from the university corner building at wits when u on the top floor, see the view when the jacaranda trees have blossomed n its a beautiful sight in deed.
@ LN- i am a taker to ur suggestion.
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blak unicorn
and Ponte!! Come this is the first thing you see in Jozi! gotta love it!
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lebogang nkoane
My spot in Jozi --- is uhmm, uhmm, uhmm,,,,, I got nothing.
But, that old post office building --- don't know where it is --- and I grew up going back 'n forth to Shell House (ANC, ahem, headquaters) --- so ja, I like that spot.
What's that other one, Caltorn centre --- at night, from the top floor looks good (although, last time I saw it, I was looking for the line of sight to get back home, I was drunk out my mind).
Word.
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noidSyStems
Ok!
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æ
new building in front of/ next to the metro centre
there's a spot below it which has an industrial kinda look to it. it may be a lighting challenge but it would make for a wicked fashion shoot.
quite a few other spots but struggling to describe them here
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hello (at) 75.co.za